tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3314914268727443114.post1398743567648407341..comments2023-10-31T12:43:06.690-04:00Comments on NishmaBlog: Commenting on "Response to Dean David Berger on Open Orthodoxy" Nishmahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04237299801109329429noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3314914268727443114.post-70045139371555973362015-08-28T12:19:23.399-04:002015-08-28T12:19:23.399-04:00I cannot lay claim to objectivity if the latter sh...I cannot lay claim to objectivity if the latter should signify the absence of axiological premises and a completely detached attitude. The halakhic inquiry, like any other cognitive theoretical performance, does not start out from the point of absolute zero as to sentimental attitudes and value judgments. There always exists in the mind of the researcher an ethico-axiological background against which the contours of the subject matter in question stand out more clearly. In all fields of human endeavor there is always an intuitive approach which determines the course and method of the analysis. ... From the outset I was prejudiced in favor of the project ... <br /><br />(Rav Soloveitchik in Community, Covenant and Commitment, p. 24) ysoscherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09309930230129719781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3314914268727443114.post-6590719652902655152015-08-27T17:59:16.358-04:002015-08-27T17:59:16.358-04:00First of all, I should mention that I appreciate R...First of all, I should mention that I appreciate R. Micha Berger's comments. There is much to say in regard to R. Katz's article.<br /><br />Further to this discussion, one may want to look at R. Neal Turk's article "Modern Orthodox Halacha?", also in the Jewish Link of New Jersey at <br />http://www.jewishlinknj.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9327:modern-orthodox-halacha&catid=156:features&Itemid=585<br /><br />Rabbi Ben HechtRabbi Ben Hechthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13424122479105225620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3314914268727443114.post-78121233566024840612015-08-27T12:44:06.884-04:002015-08-27T12:44:06.884-04:00Oh, and your technical note may be very on point.....Oh, and your technical note may be very on point...<br /><br />Open Orthodoxy as a means of welcoming people into the O tent is a great idea. But when you shift from welcoming people to welcoming ideas...<br /><br />The fact that R' Ysoscher Katz blurs the difference between how halakhah treats heresy and how it classifies the heretic (really: the person who rebels to the point of embracing heresy) is symptomatic.micha bergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11612144735431285113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3314914268727443114.post-5759285980885776202015-08-27T11:29:05.740-04:002015-08-27T11:29:05.740-04:00First, I don't see any connection between what...First, I don't see any connection between what R' Katz responded to and what R/Dr Berger wrote. Most tellingly, R/Dr Berger appeals to the norms of what is called "Orthodox Judaism", and never mentions or discusses halakhah. So deducing things about his approach to pesaq and making a negative assessment of it is entirely off.<br /><br />Second, R' Katz's thesis is an approach to pesaq that is indeed problematic. Pesaq is not static, but it does have momentum. (In fact, at least two momenta: the textual and the mimetic.) R' Herschel Schachter's primary thesis is that innovations like ordaning women or Partnership Minyanim ignore that momentum. Although in his lexicon, it's called "mesorah".<br /><br />R' Ysoscher's appeal to change doesn't toch the entire issue in question -- appropriate vs inappropriate change, and instead attacks a strawman. (R/Dr Berger isn't the Chasam Sofer, crying "chadash assur min haTorah".)<br /><br />Third, R' Ysoscher writes, "His Modern Orthodoxy is a compilation of two disparate value systems which operate side by side. For him, the Modern Orthodox ethos is primarily Orthodox with a mere nod to modernity, its core, though, is exclusively Orthodox." As though being "primarily O with a mere nod to modernity" is a bad thing. Quite the reverse -- more participation of the modern in one's ethos system is the very issue he needs to marshal defenses for.<br /><br />R' Katz calls for a synthesis "The Modern Orthodox Jew’s Orthodoxy would consequently look different than the Orthodoxy of the non-Modern Orthodox observer" -- an adulterated Orthodoxy.<br /><br />The position he derides as "simplistic" and "two disparate value systems" actually reflects the Rav's dialectical approach to life and is indeed far more nuanced than the general trend to tie everything up in a neat bow of synthesis. To assume Judaism gives us easily understood answers rather than a framework for asking better questions.<br /><br />The Rav wanted YU to be a dialectic, a yeshiva that was in the mold of Volozhin and a college that was a full liberal arts college. Not a synthesis, a "Catholic College" as he put it. A synthesis means compromising both the yeshiva and the college. A dialectic means students turning to their rabbeim to learn how to navigate challenges typical to life after college.<br /><br />(In fact, one of own problems with the Rav's hashkafah is that it is TOO nuanced. Great for an academic, but I don't think you can build a community on dialectic. You are too likely to end up with intelligentsia who pay lip service to dialectic and a cultural norm that is more about compromise.)<br /><br />Last, not so much about this particular contratempts, more about R/Dr David Berger's campaigns in general. I noticed he has so far been active in three battles, all of which I believe fit in a single war. (I have not had a chance to check this theory with him.)<br /><br />1- Most famously, his battle against L messianism and the "scandal of O indifference" to a major breach in classical understandings of the 12th of the 13 iqarim (as per Ani Maamin or Yigdal; I don't think we "canonized" the Rambam's original).<br /><br />2- Similarly, he had a long exchange when R/Dr Marc Shapiro's book came out against assuming the 13 iqarim are indeed canon at all.<br /><br />3- Now he attacks OO, but not over issues of feminist innovations or lauding "gay pride" or the like -- but again specifically on the topic of heresy. When you have a student who publishes heresy, how do you call him a talmid chakham who shouldn't be summarily dismissed? How do you say merely "we disagree"? It is more of "the scandal of [Open] Orthodox indifference" to the iqarei emunah. To the idea that we are indeed Orthodox, not Orthoprax.micha bergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11612144735431285113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3314914268727443114.post-60625154597136313172015-08-27T11:17:53.265-04:002015-08-27T11:17:53.265-04:00Bottom line, my point is that Rabbi Katz, in so st...Bottom line, my point is that Rabbi Katz, in so strongly drawing a line between himself and Rabbi Berger, may actually be furthering the argument that Open Orthodoxy is a new domination within Judaism. <br /><br />Rabbi Ben HechtRabbi Ben Hechthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13424122479105225620noreply@blogger.com