tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3314914268727443114.post7778176479586433221..comments2023-10-31T12:43:06.690-04:00Comments on NishmaBlog: An Enlightened View From a Traditional JewNishmahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04237299801109329429noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3314914268727443114.post-20276243698827863432007-09-30T13:23:00.000-04:002007-09-30T13:23:00.000-04:00One last point about R. Ya'kiv Emdem. Regardless ...One last point about R. Ya'kiv Emdem. Regardless of what he wrote in other places, it does not take away from having an enlightening thng to say HERE on THIS topic.<BR/><BR/>And just because Martin Luther advocated persecuting Jews late in his career does not negate that what he wrote earlier was kind to the Jews. You can hate the sinner and still admire some of his positive contributions. Look At Bil'am! We quote him daily in the davening! <BR/><BR/>I gues it boils down to this - <BR/>If you are a Red Sox fan - do you posite that your Worlds SEries Victories in 196 & 1918 should be returned because the pitching star was Babe Ruth who would LATER ON star for the Yankees as a slugger? Or do you judge it ba'asher who sham? <BR/><BR/>I think you leave emotions on and judge each case separately. That is imho the enlightened view of Rabbi Meir when it came to learning from Elisha Ben Avuya. Throw out the waste and keep the fruit.<BR/><BR/>The Right wing world opposes college on teh same grounds, guilt by association. The more "enlightened" Orthodox realize that you can learn a lot by discriminating the good aspects from the evil aspects.<BR/><BR/>If you lack such discernment, then it points to becoming more and more isolated like a hermit such as R.Shimon bar Yochai.<BR/><BR/>Discernment is the rational persons's tool for taking the good out of the bad.Rabbi Richard Wolpoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06757294561837786107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3314914268727443114.post-55420481365611714962007-09-30T13:15:00.000-04:002007-09-30T13:15:00.000-04:00Anonymous misses the point.Life is not ALWAYS abou...Anonymous misses the point.<BR/>Life is not ALWAYS about bwhetehr it is GOOD for the JEWS or BAD for the JEWS. It is this fanatic Jduaeo-Centric point of view that probably breeds even MORE anti-Smitism. <BR/><BR/>Take the Holocost. jews seem to think that Hitlerwas bad ONLY to hte Jews. This is unfari and insulting. Hitler harmed a lot of non-Jews, too.<BR/><BR/>Back to our point. I would agree that idolators over history have been KINDER TO Jews than Christians. my point is what is better for the WORLD as a whiole? paganism or Chisstianity. Virtually every poseik I know would favor Christianity as introducing Scripture and other noble and evolved ideas and idelas to the world at large. See Rambam for example.<BR/><BR/>The point of Evoling Noahides to a higher level does not preclude the fact that on the way they did the Crusades and pogroms etc. <BR/><BR/>Just the facts are this. Remvoe the Jews fro mthe seen and Christians are more evolved spiritually and interpersonally than the Romans or the Visigoths. That doesn't say much but it is useful.<BR/><BR/>Even martin Luther penned that JC was a after-all a Jew - during Luther's pro-Jewish early career.Rabbi Richard Wolpoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06757294561837786107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3314914268727443114.post-41496486283767234492007-09-26T08:33:00.000-04:002007-09-26T08:33:00.000-04:00I would posit that Christianity is worse that idol...I would posit that Christianity is worse that idolatry or atheism. Idolators traditionally hated Jews because we didn't worship their idols. Atheists hate Jews because we don't worship ourselves in the absence of a Godhead like them and they hate anyone who disagrees with them.<BR/>Christians, on the other hand:<BR/>a) Claim that our God dumped us like a cheap date and now hangs with them<BR/>b) Claim that, in fact, He hates us for killing Him through His incarnation as his "son"<BR/>c) Claim that everything we were supposed to inherit really belongs to them.<BR/><BR/>The reason we get along with Christians so well today is not because of anything positive in that religion. It's because they're lousy Christians who, on average, don't know the first thing about their faith and don't care passionately about it. Pogroms and Inquisitions are a sign of Christian piety, after all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3314914268727443114.post-12968553026292352522007-09-25T19:30:00.000-04:002007-09-25T19:30:00.000-04:00I also firmly believe that the more harmoniosly we...I also firmly believe that the more harmoniosly we perceive our Christian neighbors, the more likely we will be able to influence them to a more Halachically improved point of view. Of course caution is needed because influence might become reciprocal.<BR/><BR/>With those Christian friends who are not so dogmatic, I have attempted to have them see JC as more of a human prophet or guru etc. in order to move them away from "avoda Zoro mamash". I think the Rambam requires us to proseltyze to Noahides re: the 2 mitzvos. If that is true, it behooves us to either make Christianity as Halchically palatble for Noahides as possible, or to have them reconsider Chsitianity completely.<BR/><BR/>I side with Ya'avetz that Christianity is a net good, even when falwed. And it is better to make a Tikkun Olam on that institution then to chuck in favor of secularism etc. <BR/><BR/>This hearkens back to the old debate - which is worse idolatry or atheism? I cannot say for sure for a Jew which is worse but for a Noahide, I would posit Idolatry, especially one that has SOME Monotheistic elements albeit not pure. <BR/><BR/>Some New Age movements [e.g A Course in Miracles see JC more as a guru who transended human limitations rather than as an actual shittuf in the Godhead. I think this less dogmatic view of JC is a step in the right direction to see JC as a positive role mode as opposed to an object of adoration. IOW just as JC transcended his human limitations to be vindictive, et.c and to teach love and forgiveness, so should we all. In that model JC is merely a pointer to being Godly [akin to our mitzva of bechol drachav do'eihu] as opposed to being a Divine Being. <BR/><BR/>I am Not basing this so much on a firm Halahcic basis but more on a concept of developing a more evolved concept or Religion for Noahides in general. And I think it makes sense for us to encourage that kind of evolution as a step to the Messianic Ideal in Isieah of "Da'as Hashem." <BR/><BR/>Of course, like any keiruv movement, there is a real risk of contamination.<BR/><BR/>KT<BR/>RRWRabbi Richard Wolpoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06757294561837786107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3314914268727443114.post-66486415683245853442007-09-25T19:19:00.000-04:002007-09-25T19:19:00.000-04:00RE: JC. My point is not the details here. The fac...RE: JC. My point is not the details here. The facts may indeed support your read that JC is not true shittuf but something qualitatively different and qualitatively worse. It's a very valid point and on point.<BR/><BR/>However, the point of the post was that within the Traditional Rabbinical world there were very open-minded people despite a lot of pressure to be insular. It is THAT aspect that is to be applauded. We of course have every right to question that bigger question and to quibble on details of the smaller questions - especially when those details are debatable.<BR/><BR/>KT,<BR/>RRWRabbi Richard Wolpoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06757294561837786107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3314914268727443114.post-90364502154394098212007-09-25T19:16:00.000-04:002007-09-25T19:16:00.000-04:00Re: Concubines This is the kind of ad hominem atta...Re: Concubines This is the kind of ad hominem attack to which I have referred, to on other postss. Let's stick to the issue at hand and eschew ideosyncratic views on other issues. Any poseik can have a controversial point and still be quite logical on another point. Each Point should be appeciated on its own unless we are dealing with a thoroughly flawed character. <BR/><BR/>A certain Gadol's wife did not cover her hair - should we disregard his Torah on that basis? Some say so. I reject that guilt by association mentality.Rabbi Richard Wolpoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06757294561837786107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3314914268727443114.post-77839778260268856522007-09-25T14:07:00.000-04:002007-09-25T14:07:00.000-04:00Be careful who you quote. I've been told by peopl...Be careful who you quote. I've been told by people that the Shaalas Yaavetz also permits concubines in this day and age, something our spouses would not agree do, no matter how much we played up Rav Emden's halachic proficiency.<BR/>His statement of shituf regarding Christianity isn't, to my understanding, correct. J.C., may his name be blotted out, is not a partner of God but a physical incarnation of the Divine (complete with Mary committing adultery with God Himself to start the story off). It takes the concept of what we understand to be the Godhead and twists it into a completely pagan style.<BR/>Any morality which has developed in the Western world in the last 2000 years has developed despite Christianity, not because of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com